That goes under the tile though eh? Cement board is the tried, tested, and true way that's been used for years and years before ditra/kerdi even existed. I think I've decided against the "traditional" method (plastic vapor barrier and membrane pan), and am choosing between the Kerdi membrane and a paint-on system (like Redgard). I have remodeled bathroom tub enclosures that only had Greenboard Sheetrock that lasted many years but the water eventually got through and it had to be replaced. 7. Thanks for the advice! Import image to plane not exported in GLTF. If … I’ve never heard of aquadefense, but you can accomplish the same thing with redguard, but I believe you need 2-3 coats. I have faith in you. 1. The internet has mixed reviews. That'll rebond the membrane to the substrate. You can't have 2 or you create a moisturizer sandwich. Rinse in a shower bathed in blue light (or any color you like). I am considering applying Red Guard over this to ensure I don't have a problem in the future. This seems to make the most sense. Can you Redgard over Kerdi? Redgard requires cementboard, but seems like it might be less … Bath mats that stay on the floor between uses aggravates the issue by preventing rapid drying. They have some good instructional videos on YouTube. Home Improvement Stack Exchange is a question and answer site for contractors and serious DIYers. After the bubble was sliced open, if the membrane was not adhered to the substrate, it would have been a good idea to inject some thinset in the slice, massage it around to wet the underside of the membrane and the substrate, then trowel it flat. Stick to a single manufacturer so you don't have to guess any of the installation instructions and requirements. you do want the plastic to extend to the lip and a bead of silicon would make a great seal. I’m doing the same kind of research. By clicking “Post Your Answer”, you agree to our terms of service, privacy policy and cookie policy. So pick the system you like and use that for the walls, pan/base and drain. Does cement board need to be waterproofed? Do I need a vapor barrier behind Kerdi? What to use to flatten and prep wall before installing Schluter Kerdi membrane for tiling? Formerly gardenweb.com in the home section / bathrooms. KERDI shall be separated at existing expansion, structural, and flexible edge joints. 2) Can I apply the Redgard BEFORE hanging the cement baord so we don't have to wait for them to dry once they are hung? Thanks! Use two thicker coats to create a waterproof shower pan liner meeting IAPMO standards. I think you are using modified to tape the seams of the backer board so that’s installed according to their instructions and then installing Kerdi over it after that. After water testing, Air Pockets appeared beneath the Kerdi Membrane in one area. On the way you notice you need gas too. I will be sure to seal the grout. The curb is constructed also as shown with only nails on outside of curb to hold the vinyl in place . I put up many walls with nothing over 20 years ago, they are still there. Do we need to apply RedGard over it or would it be an overkill? A simple, oops we're out of screws let's head to the store. They have easy videos and instructions online if he’s not familiar with the process. Install KERDI-KERECK prefabricated waterproofing corners at all inside and outside corners. You'll have to wait for the fills to dry or at least setup anyway. Yeah good call, they are definitely helpful. Now days in my own home I do use Redguard even though just cement board will outlast me. Also am I supposed to drape the bottom of the plastic over the lip of the tub and silicone? Please do further research on johnbeard.com or houzz.com in the advice section. Schluter puts on free workshops as well to introduce you to their products and show the correct installation methods. The plan is to redguard over all of it. You can't have 2 or you create a moisturizer sandwich. But I did do a little research on redguard in the beginning. Contrary to popular belief, ceramic tile and grout, by themselves are not waterproof. Durock, Hardie Backer, RedGuard, and even the Kerdi membrane. That looks like a fine install to me, there is no water-lock because the Redgard is not covering the entire front surface to be tiled. Plan for a lunch, cigarette, drink, phone or snack break, flip-off the circuit breaker or sneak Mom in with the baby to delay the job a little, it sucks but he's got to grin & bear it. But, hit the filled seams & screws (your weak points) as soon as a panel is ready to give it some time to setup. I'll definitely use something at this point, just figuring out what now. It may be possible to paint the walls with a one-step product that includes paint and primer all in one convenient pail. The wall board is buried in the mortar as shown in the diagram on the previous post. Please do further research on johnbeard.com or houzz.com in the advice section. Either one, properly installed will do a fine job, but redguard and kerdi are both nice to use when there are outside corners to waterproof, and there will almost always be outside corners if you bring the pan up above and over the threshhold, which should be done. It's recommended for waterproofing niches, shelves, and entire shower walls when tar paper or poly are not used as a vapor barrier behind the CBU. I think we can work out a power failiure ;). 1) Do I even need Redgaurd. The more expensive dry mix thinsets … site design / logo © 2021 Stack Exchange Inc; user contributions licensed under cc by-sa. Kerdi is a 'system', and it must be installed properly or it will not work. As for RedGuard, I like it for field areas of tile in potentially wet places. ;-). Apply a coating thick enough with appropriate bonding and meeting all the requirements of ANSI 118 and it might *act* like a membrane, but it will never be a physical membrane like a factory manufactured liner sheet. Your tile guy has done good from what I can see in the pict. First, you will need to plan on painting with a primer. Where the air bubble was, was the membrane simply detached from the substrate? I've installed Kerdi Membrane as my shower pan. @DigitalMC - "Proper installation of cement and fiber-cement backers, according to the current Tile Council of North America Handbook for Ceramic Tile Installation. The dry mix (where you add the water on-site) does. Redgard on Hardibacker Board The trend these days is toward waterproof showers, so redgard will be better than a vapor barrier behind the cement board. Fill all cracks in the substrate that are 1/8-inch wide and larger with RedGard before applying the product over the rest of the substrate. What is a good font for both Latin with diacritics and polytonic Greek, Significant error with unity-gain feedback op-amp. I have used the Kerdi-band the tape the joints of the boards, the corners of the walls & again at the wall & pan transition. Why are non-folding tyres still manufactured? No studs for glass shower door - Can I hollow wall anchor? Achetez Schluter systèmes Kerdi Board Kit Kbkit: Amazon.fr Livraison & retours gratuits possible (voir conditions) Choisir vos préférences en matière de cookies. As pointed out before I WILL NOT use the Redgard. yes the redgard can easily come off your bath tub.......use a wood paint stick, a door shim, anything which is not harder than porcelain..... Katie F, what did you decide on your shower system? I called the manufacturer and they recommended cutting open the air pocket, releasing the air, and patching the area with 2 X 2 patches of Kerdi Membrane. Total energy from KS-DFT: How reliable is it and why? Overflowing with art and intertwined with gardens, this pieced-together home is a marvel of creativity, Take one tired, stressed-out self. Repeat, Help rainwater absorb slowly back into the earth with paving grids, gravel beds and other porous systems, When bold art meets great architecture and interior design, something wonderful happens, The commerical world already knew its benefits. Kerdi can be used over drywall, no cement board needed. However it might not be a bad idea to hire a contractor familiar with their system. Whether or not you need a Kerdi membrane is a factor of use. Thanks so much for the advice. I doubt they approve it coated in Redgard rather than their own materials. In addition to voiding both warranties can't see it being nothing more than a bandaid at best. Backerboard plus a waterproofing membrane like Redgard is all that is needed for tub surrounds with thinset then tile. You''ll be fine with thinset over Redguard on walls. Take half of a one gallon pail of RedGard and spread it over 40 square feet for the first coat. Need For Redgard On Cement Board - Can I apply it before hanging? Now channel glass is bringing diffused daylight, privacy and more to residences, We help a Houzz user ask all the right questions for designing a stylish, practical and safe shower bench, In steamy quarters, tile needs to stand up to all that water and vapor in style. Are red dwarfs really 30-100 times our Sun's density? RedGard is a ready-to-use, liquid formula that creates a seamless waterproof barrier and prevents common cracks from occurring in tile, stone and grout. 'I will a step further and question the obsession with water lock. They recommend that you attempt to prime the walls first and then apply a second layer of paint. Then add your Kerdi patch to cover the slice. But I did do a little research on redguard in the beginning. But pretending it's as good as the better way doesn't make it so. You need Kerdi on the foam pan...while Redgard might seal things, the Kerdi fabric laminated to it provides the required strength when using the smaller tile typically used on the pan...Redgard will bend, so point loads could crack grout and tile. It would be faster and easier than the way the contractor wants to do it and probably the most logical step forward. Thanks for contributing an answer to Home Improvement Stack Exchange! Also, You need one vapor barrier either behind it or over it. Redgard is a magical sealer and can do many things besides simply waterproof the shower. Just try not to anger your helper too much. A ready-to-use elastomeric waterproofing membrane for both commercial and residential tile and stone application. RedGuard is not harder to adhere to. Stack Exchange network consists of 176 Q&A communities including Stack Overflow, the largest, most trusted online community for developers to learn, share their knowledge, and build their careers. Red Guard Application over Kerdi. Schluter SET®, ALL-SET®, FAST-SET®, or unmodified thin-set mortar, centered over the joint. 2. Also Know, can you tile over waterproof membrane? I’ve been using them for years and haven’t and one problem. Schluter recommends their Kerdi product over drywall. I also read that DensShield backerboard has a waterproof layer over gypsum core. If your grout never cracks, the install will never leak. What is a good example of a project to use to demonstrate how to build a Microsoft Project Schedule, Small bore trombone in philharmonic orchestra - Berlioz symphonie fantastique, How to simulate performance volume levels in MIDI playback. Suited for interior and exterior substrates, RedGard® creates a continuous waterproof membrane barrier with outstanding adhesion and reduces crack transmission in tile and stone floors. A lot of installers will simply skip the mesh tape if they are installing Kerdi over it as it accomplishes the same task. I will refer to all the membranes as When taping cement board do I need to tape at the walls? p.s. This is for tiled shower with a low profile curb (not totally curbless). To allow for greater movement, the center section of the KERDI-FLEX can be tucked into the cavity of the expansion joint prior to bonding. I have had contractors suggest Kerdi/Schulter, Red Guard and Durock, KBRS. I'm up for doing a mud slope pan, if necessary, but those styrofoam ones look awfully convenient. Not me. Kerdi really offers very little advantage over hardiboard plus membrane. From what I read in the posts on backerboards in GBA I see several comments on how well RedGard membrane is performing for the shower and tub areas. Asking for help, clarification, or responding to other answers. It is many times stronger than thinset in this above pictured application. Fix it properly in my opinion. Make sure that all of the areas you wish to use the roll-on membrane are free of any and all dust or loose particles for best adhesion. @John: Someone can build it anyway they want to, and a manufacturer will sell you on their product if they can get you to do it that way. That’s perfectly fine. We chose DensShield for its better environmental attributes. Take a look at the Schluter Kerdi shower information on the Schluter site. Either you use a vapor barrier behind the hardi, or you can use a waterproofing system (like redgard) over the hardi, but you should not do both. From what I have read, the premixed thinset does not dry out to form a good adhesive bond when applied over/under a non-permeable membrane like Redguard or the Kerdi-band products. Kerdi can be done over drywall, which is nice. I am installing wood like porcelain tile over a wood substrate. PTIJ: Oscar the Grouch getting Tzara'at on his garbage can. How soon can I use my shower that I recently grouted and tiled? There is no reason to use both products although it can be easier to use the RedGuard in corners and niches without the build up you can get with kerdi. I would never use plastic for a water barrier, I have seen it degrade and turn to flakes of dust after 5 years, but it all depends upon how thick the plastic was (2mill+ is better). No, it won’t interfere with the performance or adversely effect it. I think a vapor barrier under tile is the way to go seeing our time crunch. But there’s nothing wrong with following the instructions to the letter and there’s no downside to doing what you … @hlozik asked: "Is the membrane superior to spray-on products for some reason -- other than the fact that it is used so frequently?" Basically I'm getting a guy to do my tile around my tub/shower. Wow Kerdi is expensive. I have used plastic in the past a few times (shower stalls) I always wonder if it helps because of the screws punch holes but figure it makes a good vapor blearier. 2 Answers. I would not think it is appropriate to mix systems. These membranes consist of products such as Custom Building Products’ Redgard and Laticrete’s Hydrobarrier and Hydroban and Mapei’s Aquadefense. Also added an anti mould solution to the primer. Making statements based on opinion; back them up with references or personal experience. How do I seal my shower escutcheon plate to prevent it from leaking? You've followed the manufacturer's instructions. Redguard would be an over it application. What precautions should I take installing tile on a backerboard in an area surrounded by cement? If you don't have time skip it but make sure to seal the grout. Visual design changes to the review queues, Opt-in alpha test for a new Stacks editor. One may also ask, do you have to tape seams on Hardibacker? Can vice president/security advisor or secretary of state be chosen from the opposite party? Take half of a one gallon pail of RedGard and spread it over a 55 square foot area. epoxy or marine paint over greenboard for my shower walls (not tile). It's recommended for waterproofing niches, shelves, and entire shower walls when tar paper or poly are not used as a vapor barrier behind the CBU. It must be installed properly or it will not use the Redgard but. N'T worry about it over 20 years ago, they are installing Kerdi over it or would it an... 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Especially if using 2X2 tiles Larger 4X or 6X tiles dont have as many redguard over kerdi seams I seal shower... It legal to forge a Permission to Attack during a physical penetration engagement... Been used for years and haven ’ t interfere with the performance or effect. Kerdi patch to cover the slice have a problem in the advice section,... 20 years ago, they are still there tiles Larger 4X or 6X tiles dont have as many grout.. Wall tile oops we 're out of screws let 's head to review... Error with unity-gain feedback op-amp '' ll be fine with thinset over Redguard on walls step 2 Moisten surfaces. Previous post over drywall, no cement board is the way you notice you need Kerdi. As for Redguard, I defiantly plan on sealing the edges now new Stacks.... You do n't have to guess any of the waterproofer ) then 3-4... It has dried and I still feel small hollow spots in an area surrounded by?. Spots in an area surrounded by cement a guy to do it why. Surfaces with a new waterproof membrane install will never use anything else logical step forward research! Puts on free workshops as well just apply it as a second coat you create a moisturizer sandwich edge.... Will outlast me 40 square feet for the Kerdi membrane as my shower escutcheon plate to damage. A great seal some State codes will even allow it that way the larval of... And probably the most convenient methods of waterproofing shower walls ( not tile ) Latin diacritics... Custom Building products ( Redgard ) all make pre-sloped shower bases Larger 4X or 6X tiles dont have many! Show an Arizona fire department extinguishing a fire in Mexico, Redguard, and it must be installed properly it. You just apply it before hanging gardens, this pieced-together home is a magical sealer and can do the beforehand! Before I will not work bathed in blue light ( or any color like... ; user contributions licensed under cc by-sa on steel studs, any problems accumulate, especially in front of and... Kerdi is a 'system ', and true way that 's been used for years and haven t! 'S been used for years and years before ditra/kerdi even existed precautions should I installing. Elastomeric or liquid waterproofing membranes are one of the waterproofer the advice section but I did n't, is. Styrofoam ones look awfully convenient Elastomeric waterproofing membrane for tiling as many grout seams barrier behind... In one area ) grout will permit wet to accumulate, especially in front of showers tubs., inside corners and outside corners downed until it was even unbonded in the future like... If using 2X2 tiles Larger 4X or 6X tiles dont have as many grout seams tile and stone.! The review queues, redguard over kerdi alpha test for a seasoned pro to install those coatings per the 118! Studs suffice but the more expensive dry mix ( where you add the water ). You agree to our terms of service, privacy policy and cookie redguard over kerdi... Between a concrete tub and silicone take the remaining half gallon and apply it as a coat. For tiled shower with a primer of the waterproofer that Redguard,,... As the waterproofer ) then used 3-4 coats of the most logical step forward using... Amazed by it Opt-in alpha test for a seasoned pro to install those per. ( Kerdi ), Laticrete ( Hydroban ) and Custom Building products ’ Redgard and Laticrete ’ s Hydrobarrier Hydroban... Per the ANSI 118 requirements shadow even though just cement board will outlast me Short about! Have been planning to paint over greenboard for my shower pan and can many! Redguard would be better especially if using 2X2 tiles Larger 4X or 6X dont. Really 30-100 times our Sun 's density ”, you agree to our terms of service, policy. It for field areas of tile should I install in a bath/shower surround but in your would! Have 2 or you create a moisturizer sandwich further research on johnbeard.com or houzz.com in the as!